Create empty wall opening

[paullee]

Let me also add that I would like to have a library object “empty opening”. I was very surprised when I discovered that there was no such possibility.

Now, in order to get a “hole” in the wall, I need to hide the existing object (but I may not keep track and it may appear again). Or invent your own window with a very thin outerframe and a removed innerframe. Or use Boolean operations and subvolume. All this is inconvenient.

You mean a Window or Door object which just punch a hole but no frame, panel etc. right? Yes, sub-volume works somehow but not convenient (screencpature), the Sketch outline is projected on ‘XY’ plane e.g. Not sure someone has make a feature request or not, seems not difficult but needs developer’s time

Screenshot from 2023-12-22 17-36-20.png

[ProjectBP]

You mean a Window or Door object which just punch a hole but no frame, panel etc. right? Yes, sub-volume works somehow but not convenient (screencpature), the Sketch outline is projected on ‘XY’ plane e.g. Not sure someone has make a feature request or not, seems not difficult but needs developer’s time

Yes. We are talking specifically about the library object “hole”, available in choice along with windows and doors.

I know of several ways to make an opening (hole), but they all look like propping up a falling ceiling with a mop.
But openings are used very often in construction (not everywhere openings need to be filled)

[thomas-neemann]

…
But openings are used very often in construction (not everywhere openings need to be filled)

I create openings with the window tool and hide the window

[ProjectBP]

…
But openings are used very often in construction (not everywhere openings need to be filled)

I create openings with the window tool and hide the window

This only works once.
If you hide the wall in which the door is located - and then show it again. Your opening will be closed by a door.

If the object is large, with several levels, you often have to hide part of it.
Accordingly, all empty openings will be closed during unhide.

[thomas-neemann]

here is an example

[ProjectBP]

here is an example

Great!
now hide the wall and then show it again.

The problem with the opening has been identified and at the moment any solution options are inconvenient.
We can probably finish, since we are deviating from the topic.

[thomas-neemann]

why should the wall be faded out and shown again?

[Roy_043]

In complex models it can at times be required to make certain elements invisible.

[Roy_043]

Programmatically this is indeed not very hard. But a principle question needs to be answered. As you probably know you can select any shape and then turn it into a window. But to support a sketch-based empty opening we need to not use the shape of the sketch for the shape of the window. What criterion should we use to decide that? Check for the presence of solids, faces, or check if all edges are part of the OuterWire, or …?

[ProjectBP]

why should the wall be faded out and shown again?

It’s a joke? Just don’t say that you never hide objects that block the view (access) to the objects behind them.

For example, you can hide the second floor to work only with the first.

[ProjectBP]

Check for the presence of solids, faces, or check if all edges are part of the OuterWire, or …?

I don’t know which option would be the most convenient. For me it doesn’t make much difference how it is arranged “inside”. The main goal is to make a hole in the wall by simply indicating its location. Of course, with certain dimensions (width and height). If there is more depth, it will be possible to make niches in the walls. (windows and doors already have this - parameter Hole Depth).

Perhaps someone will need openings with arches or with bevels (by the way, this also applies to ordinary windows and doors). But this would already be a useful “addition”.
Nowadays, such windows and doors can also be assembled, but it would be more convenient in a library of ready-made models.

Here is an example of a GIF image from a blender addon.

Roy_043 Thanks for putting it in a separate topic!

[thomas-neemann]

…
It’s a joke? ..

if I want to show and hide it I do it with std_part.
tn1439.FCStd
Bildschirmfoto_2023-12-22_14-44-11.png

In my opinion, there is a bug in freecad that the status of windows and doors that are on or hidden sometimes gets confused after saving and reopening

OS: Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS (XFCE/xubuntu)
Word size of FreeCAD: 64-bit
Version: 0.21.2.33771 (Git) AppImage
Build type: Release
Branch: (HEAD detached at 0.21.2)
Hash: b9bfa5c5507506e4515816414cd27f4851d00489
Python 3.10.13, Qt 5.15.8, Coin 4.0.0, Vtk 9.2.6, OCC 7.6.3
Locale: German/Germany (de_DE)
Installed mods: 
  * Curves 0.6.15
  * lattice2 1.0.0
  * CfdOF 1.24.9
  * ArchTextures

[ProjectBP]

if I want to show and hide it I do it with std_part.

Thank you!
It works. But you must admit that it is not at all necessary to know such a subtle feature. This looks like a hack)

View tree is often cluttered without it. Creating more additional entities for the sake of hiding/anhiding does not seem logical.
In addition, it is not always known in advance what and at what level will need to be hidden/unhide. Making a part for each level is not much easier than changing the finished opening once (an extra task)

And yes… it looks like a bug.

[hatari]

View tree is often cluttered without it. Creating more additional entities for the sake of hiding/anhiding does not seem logical.
In addition, it is not always known in advance what and at what level will need to be hidden/unhide. Making a part for each level is not much easier than changing the finished opening once (an extra task)

Maybe another a little less cluttering possibility would be to use a Draft Layer.
Objects will still show after hide/show of the wall, but then all undesired Doors/windows can be hidden at once afterwards…

[thomas-neemann]

+1

[ProjectBP]

Anything you can think of to avoid discussing empty openings in the walls

You can think whatever you want, but I think this is all a problem

[paullee]

Anybody can help checking if there is available any feature request on Github, and create one ?

Thanks

[Roy_043]

yorik Are you OK with this feature (empty wall opening) and calling it “Opening only” in the GUI?

[yorik]

Yes, but note that just anything can be used to create an opening in a wall. You can create a sketch, extrude it (with Part Extrude or for ex. Arch Structure), then use that object as a subtraction (use the Arch Remove tool).

So the functionality actually exists already.

In IFC terms, also, an opening is not the same as the object that fits into that opening (the window). In NativeIFC I’m actually tending towards expliciting that. In Arch/BIM, we have a kind of “combo” tool that does both at the same time. But does that still make sense when we have an opening without window inside?

But indeed, programmatically, it is simple. If you think it’s a good idea, I have nothing against it, the more functionality the better

[paullee]

Sounds good.

Then, if Window tool can be used to create Opening only, then, it should only exported to IFC with ‘opening’ in IFC only. Anyone would like to tweak the existing Window tool to achieve that?

2 options I think:-

1. If the Window tool does not define any Frame, Pane, Panels, even with an underlying Sketch, the Window Object should only return an ‘opening’ only.
2. There is an addition attribute say, ‘Create Opening Only’, when it is True, the Window object does not create the window shape and export to IFC with ‘opening’ only.